3rd of 19 goes to Airspeed

Airspeed Skateparks

Those who were expecting one of the big two to get the contract will be surprised to learn that Gabriel Park will be built by Airspeed. Portland’s parks department made the announcement yesterday. Here’s the unofficial word

…the selection process is set up to judge the specific proposals that are
submitted, and while they take into consideration past experience and performance, the majority of the decision is made upon how well the proposal addresses requests and items in this specific RFP. Unfortunately, not all of the great skatepark builders in the world who excel in the field excel in the realm of putting a proposal document together. Many simply just did not give specific consideration to Gabriel Park’s unique topography, opportunities or needs. Airspeed did.

Toledo has been a surprise hit. That’s Waldport Oregon and Pescadero, Mexico in the shots above, both taken from the Airspeed web site. It’s important to remember that the selection committees are changing for each park in the system. Here’s to variety!

87 Comments

  1. Interesting. I hope Placed To Ride win one of the bids.

  2. I want a big covered vert ramp.

  3. nweyesk8 on May 1, 2007 - Reply

    i want a big covered vert ramp ,11′ and 2′ X 60′

  4. Cool, I’m stoked to see some variety in this town. I’m assuming Gabriel Park is the next projected site?

  5. how about newline for the 4th?

  6. Yeah, Gabriel is #3, Glenhaven was #2. I’d like to see PTR build here too. SPS has the map of the location. Also, I’d like to point out that I’m sitting in Tampa airport using free wireless. It’s excellent, except for the evil eye I’m getting from my wife.

  7. can’t wait to see the design, that will be the closest park to my house.

  8. refried rob on May 4, 2007 - Reply

    airspeed parks suck,dreamland should be building the parks in portland.does anyone think they will build a better park than dreamland?waldport,toledo no thank you.

  9. nweyesk8 on May 4, 2007 - Reply

    waldport and toledo are btoh very fun parks, if you dont like airspeed than I guess I dont have to worry about waiting on you before I drop in. If you want to knock parks what about Dreamlands ‘siletz’ park?

  10. trog on May 4, 2007 - Reply

    they should build a covered vert ramp then all the vert kooks aka dads with pads will be out of the way on the street courses!!!

  11. Yeah.. all those Vert kooks are always hanging out in street courses. That makes no sense.

  12. vert kook on May 4, 2007 - Reply

    Trog’s probably either baiting the sna crew ala bmx guy or just looking for a new excuse for never landing his one-half-mph-switch-nollie-heelflip-crooked-grind-shove-it-out. Pull your pants up street geek. Isn’t this great? It used to be skaters vs the man; now that we’re spoiled its skaters vs skaters.

  13. sk8hag on May 4, 2007 - Reply

    Siletzs park was built buy the beer garden crew not dreamland.L.C.B.H BIAAATCH.

  14. Vert Forever

  15. Tom Miller on May 6, 2007 - Reply

    Should be interesting. The burden is on Airspeed to demonstrate they can build a park worth skating on a consistent basis. Airspeed has an established history in Oregon of focusing each project around one novel concept – usually vert or oververt – with the rest of park being underwhelming afterthought. Go to their website where they spotlight this design approach on their homepage. Personally, I haven’t skated an Airspeed park I’d want to skate regularly.

    Setting aside subjective preferences, Waldport has both design and construction flaws. Reedsport is their best park in the state – not coincidentally because it’s their most basic design – and Florence is basically about one feature.

    I used to think Airspeed had greatness within that just hadn’t been expressed yet through the right project. I would characterize greatness as a park with flawless construction whose design is both accessible and remarkable. I’d say Aumsville is one of the best examples; you can roll through no problem on your first run but the more you start to get the park and the deeper your trick bag the more the park opens up and you see new opportunities. That is design genius, especially given its vintage. Given the years behind us now, I’m no longer sure Airspeed has what it takes to be a great design/build firm.

    I hope Portlanders challenge Airspeed to step up. And rumors of a double funnel should be stopped in their tracks now. Oregon needs one funnel; it’s already in Reedsport. A double funnel for the three guys on the planet who are going to make it belongs in somebody’s backyard, not in a public skatepark. That would an example of extreme overprioritization of the remarkable versus the accessible.

  16. Come on Tom, quit beating around the bush and tell us what you really think.

  17. Tom Miller on May 8, 2007 - Reply

    I really think Airspeed’s Oregon skatepark history has me concerned we may get a park that’s kind of cool and mostly lame. There! One sentence just like everyone else! Ha ha.

  18. nweyesk8 on May 8, 2007 - Reply

    I have to say that I find that I really like Bethal in Eugene. It is an Airspeed park that has a lot of fun potential. The more I have skated there the more new lines I find. I would be interested in seeing an accurate plan of the proposed park.

  19. Nick on May 8, 2007 - Reply

    ouch.
    none of the airspeed parks I have skated have been all that exciting, and I would think if one park went to Dreamland, it would be an all tranny park like this.

  20. nweyesk8 on May 8, 2007 - Reply

    I have to agree with Tom on Aumsville as a shining example of park design and also Newberg. It is interesting, in my opinion, that those two parks were built by a dreamland crew that isn’t together anymore. I am fairly certian that Geth was pretty involved in dreamland when it built Lincoln City I and Newberg, I am not aware if he was still with them when they built Aumsville. I further agree that we shouldn’t allow the design of the park to be based around a “showpiece/gimmick”. some of the best aspects of the new pier park and glenhaven parks are the simplisticness of their design’s.

  21. Tom Miller on May 10, 2007 - Reply

    My favorite feature at Bethel is the kinked round wall vert extension with tiles. I would characterize that kinked wall as “the feature” at Bethel. To me, Bethel is a scaled-down version of Waldport, Reedsport, and Florence. Lots of grooviness, unrepentant creativity, but it all just doesn’t come together like you’d hope it would. Design seem based on a feature versus a line.

    Certainly others can have different opinions, but I prefer parks for lines versus a feature. See: Aumsville and Newberg. It seems almost cliche to discuss Newberg in 2007, but that place is absolutely amazing. It’s a kinder gentler Burnside. The fact that Newberg can handle +/- 10 skaters simultaneously with its design is incredible. The “off” space (flat) is just as crucial as the “on” space (features) from a funtionality viewpoint.

    Pier and Glenhaven designs were intentional to accommodate as many as skaters as possible simultaneously within smaller (10-11,000 sf) footprints. Pier is quirky, which complements Glenhaven’s accessibility. Together the two parks nicely accommodate each other.

    Hopefully Gabriel as the 3rd park allows us to break away from the one-skater-at-a-time tranny design constraints and allows for more of a line as an adventure a la LC, Aumsville, Astoria, or should I say Florence, Bethel, Reedsport.

    The notion at Gabriel is a snake run, which I endorse. The closest thing to a good snake run is Kuna, Idaho and that’s really a snake/bowl hybrid. Otherwise you have to go north to skate BC’s old school snake runs. Let’s be honest: Dreamland failed at Redmond. They admit that.

    Airspeed could be up for the task. They just need to focus on making the whole footprint work as a seamless unit. I’m all for gimmicks – I really enjoyed Grindline’s Irrigon, which is littered with gimmicks – as long as they’re seamless in the larger whole. I think as long as Portland’s skaters are present and responsive and Airspeed is truly collaborative, we could get there.

  22. Danimal on May 10, 2007 - Reply

    Tom, i’m glad you mentioned the “off” space at newberg, that part of the design is great in my opinion, being able to skate around constantly and get warmed up or just keep rolling without having to wait for a run is one of the best parts of that park. It also allows for small learning areas for the kiddos.

  23. I’m stoked that Airspeed is building one of the new Portland parks. I lived on the coast while they were building most of those parks, and I’ve always had a blast skating in Waldport, Florence, Reedsport and Toledo. There’s no denying that Dreamland makes great parks – but I think that Airspeed does too. They are always willing to try something new.

    I especially miss living next to the Waldport park. The more I skated there, the more fun I had. I can’t imagine a better transition park in such a small space.

    The deep end in Florence is amazing – and not just about the Donut hole. There are so many cool hips and angles to play around with. The over-vert pocket it pretty crazy, but I have seen some sick shit go down in there.

    Reedsport is like a big ‘ol rollercoaster, and you dont have to loop the funnel to have fun I love to just blast through the tunnel in the middle of my run – a great sense of speed and 3D space.

    nweyesk8: You’re right about Geth being involved with Lincoln City 1 and Newberg. Stephanie from Airspeed was part of the Newberg Crew as well. I don’t think that they participated at Aumsville tho.

    I say the more the merrier, and good luck to Airspeed! Stoked to see them building parks again after their short absence from the local scene.

    ! SK8 + CRE8 !

  24. Good to see the spirited discussion provoked by us winning the Gabriel bid. Our parks always seem to elicit extreme reactions. Maybe cuz they are extremely different.

    The funnel at Reedsport is not actually very hard to loop, it’s mainly a mental challenge. Anyone who can pump some speed and aim themselves straight up the loop line has the potential to loop. The Double funnel is designed to be even easier than Reedsport, so it serves as a stepping stone for more difficult loops. I believe in the ability of Oregon’s skaters to progress, to transcend false limits and to make the incredible commonplace.

    That said, we probably won’t build the Double Funnel at Gabriel, as we typically only build our more advanced designs for people who request them. Toledo and Bushy Park in Dublin,Ireland are good examples of a basic, fun park with no crazy feature.

  25. I was talking to Mark Scott last week and he said that Tom Miller is his attorney. Might this relationship have something to do with Tom’s comments against Airspeed?

  26. sk8hag on May 13, 2007 - Reply

    Geth- Don’t listen to the opinion of others. Build something radical. Portland doesn’t need a bland park with no personality, you skate one 8 foot radius trany and corner you have skated them all. Make some fucked up shit! Lets see some unique stuff. How bout the triple funnel? This is your chance, do it your way, and if people don’t like it; let them start there own companies and build what they want. You wouldn’t tell an artist how to paint! so people back off! Just imagine what the first two Portland parks would be like if people would have let Dreamland build what they wanted! Too many cooks in the kitchen if you ask me. GO BIG!!!

  27. Geth – Regarding Mr MIller: I can see why you might be inclined to think so, but I think it’s more likely a case of that’s how he actually feels, regardless of any relationship with Mark Scott.

    In any case, thanks for taking the time to weigh in and good luck with the Gabriel Park project. We’ll all be excited to see what you guys come up with.

  28. Tom Miller on May 15, 2007 - Reply

    Welcome to the discussion, Geth. It will likely continue through project completion. It’s good to have a representative from the builder community enter the conversation.

    Let’s put the uncharacteristically silly comment from Mr. Noble behind us. I haven’t done legal work for Dreamland in years. But let’s get to the real point: I am entitled to an opinion, can and will defend it all day everyday. Anybody who’s tuned into the Oregon skatepark conversation over the last however many years knows that. Apologies to any bruised egos, but after nearly 30 years of skating, I’m reasonably confident in my observations and experience with skateboarding and terrain. Geth and I know each other; he’s much wiser than a conspiracy comment.

    Airspeed is also a professional contracting firm. They’ve been in the business for many years. Part of being pro means accepting and reacting to criticism. The opportunity is to respond to, rather than deflect from, the merits of the argument.

    If Airspeed wants to make a pitch that a double funnel is right for Gabriel, I welcome it. I’m intrigued to see how far the macho “man up, Portland!” argument goes. I suspect it will get shot down in flames as an inefficient use of valuable space and resources, but that’s Airspeed’s business as the selected project designer/builder. I could be wrong.

    In any regard, I see the challenge for Airspeed to produce a seamless product where every feature and inch of the park unifies as part of the greater good to perform as well as it could and should. Toledo lacks the super feature, but the overall design is still disjointed. I think Airspeed can produce a complete product a la Glenhaven, I just haven’t skated it yet. This project actually will be easier than Glenhaven because the street/tranny issue doesn’t apply. It’s a superb opportunity for Airspeed.

  29. Man, the one I don’t get is that too many cooks in the kitchen post. Okay, there were too many cooks in the kitchen in both cases — but the big bowl at Pier Park and the little peanut at Glenhaven about do the trick for me. Thanks Dreamland.

    I am looking forward to Airspeed completing Gabriel.

  30. marek on May 15, 2007 - Reply

    i dont nessesary see double funnel as the bestest thing to be build around here simply because it is not gonna get used enough to justify the use of space and money (same as another 12 feet deep thingy) but generally idea of airspeed park in portland makes me pretty happy. theres nothing wrong with weird,unusual and difficult stuff to ride. it require playfulness and creativity to skate such a thing and none of that is wrong.

    keep portland weird!

  31. shoey on May 15, 2007 - Reply

    Geths gonna do a real fine job building something proper up in portland. Hopefully real big ,real fast and real loopable. Maybe four opposing cradles with hips connecting them . And a minefield of volcanoes to build speed off of.

  32. marek on May 15, 2007 - Reply

    whoa, shoey, that might be little bit too much but in general i can say i like your idea of something really really weird. how about few oververt pockets? you cant really grind a cradle,you know?:)

  33. Maybe you can’t.

  34. marek on May 15, 2007 - Reply

    ouch, that hurts my ego so badly i cant come up with anything even remotly funny. i guess i deserved it due to my recent unexcuseble comments about old people skating big bowls. next time i will know better

  35. shoey on May 15, 2007 - Reply

    The cradle comment isnt true! Zac from port orford ,backside grinds the rim of port orford on his backside loop runs. Hes been doin it since he was 14. Believe it or not its a pretty regular thing. Some people do 100 different lip tricks or ollies . Some people just really enjoy being upside down. I dont really care about wierd. I just want something real fast and something thats loopable. To build a skatepark today without a loopable feature seems like a waste. If the opportunity is there go big . Leave a footprint in the earth.

  36. Tom said: “Geth and I know each other; he’s much wiser than a conspiracy comment.”

    As a lawyer, Tom should know that a conspiracy involves two or more people conspiring to commit a criminal act. I have not accused Tom of any crime, thus I have not accused Tom of conspiracy, nor did I make a “conspiracy comment”. I respectfully request that we not stoop to utilizing straw man arguments in this forum.

  37. Ok kids, if you can’t talk nice to each other…

  38. shoey: Would love to see this Zac dude skate in Port Orford. Cant imagine grindin the top of that thing – it feels so exposed in there with no ‘shoulder’ on that one side.

    I think your right about loopable features – or at least 3D sorts of features. One of the most amazing parts of skating a concrete part is the 3D aspects. Moving through space in all dimensions, ‘standing up’ on a vertical wall parallel to the ground. Where else can you do that?

  39. shoey on May 15, 2007 - Reply

    Hes regular foot, his backside loops toward the wall side. He grinds from about 11 o’clock all the way out. I agree the upside down motion really completes the full carve.

  40. Tom said:

    “A double funnel for the three guys on the planet who are going to make it belongs in somebody’s backyard, not in a public skatepark.”

    Tom apparently is not aware that lots of guys have looped the funnel. Rion, Lance, Joseph, Shoey, Packy, Screech, myself, the guy on a bike who doubled it, a dude on a mini-bike, even Tom’s employer Red. At the 2005 Loop Challenge, we collectively looped that shit nearly 100 times, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the funnel is functional. The double funnel would be easier to loop, so way more than 3 guys or girls will loop it after we build it in Indiana.

    The loop that probably no one will ever make is found at Tom’s pet project, Pier Park. Built by Dreamland for prevailing wage, Pier Park never even went out to bid–Tom secured the job with his fair and balanced non-profit, Skaters for Dreamland Skateparks. Pier Park’s full pipe is mostly unfunctional. Looping it is beyond the range of most if not all riders. The door would have created an obvious loop line, but no speed line feeds into it.
    You can roll in from the top, but the roll-in line leads into a cramped little bowl that struggles to accommodate the speed. Contrast this with Reedsport, where the roll-in line connects directly to the loop line–that’s functional design. About all Pier Park’s full pipe accomplishes is provide some shade on hot days. It’s “an inefficient use of valuable space and resources,” as Tom would say.

    Initially I was confused by Tom’s critiques of Airspeed parks. Every park has flaws, but none of the flaws he cites are found in our parks. I finally understood after skating Pier Park yesterday–Tom is projecting the obvious defects of his beloved, pet project onto the parks of Airspeed, his employer’s competition. “Just doesn’t come together,” “Design seem based on a feature versus a line,” “basically about one feature;” all Tom’s complaints apply perfectly to Pier Park, not to any Airspeed parks.

    I’ll end this on the positive–I’ve skated with Tom so I know he has it within him to loop Reedsport. I am certain that he can do it this summer if he wants it.

  41. OOPS! I misspoke; Tom Miller’s non-profit, which has done tons of good work for skateparks in Portland and for the design-build discipline, is called “Skaters for Portland Skateparks,” not “Skaters for Dreamland Skateparks” as I mistakenly referred to it. Sorry Tom!

    Also, if Mark Scott was mistaken when he told me Tom is his attorney I retract any statements I made asserting that Tom is employed by Dreamland.

  42. The full pipe at Pier is totally functional. It can be ridden like a, well.. full pipe or half pipe. I’m not sure why it has to be loopable to be usable.

    I don’t think your criticism of the Pier Park process is fair. As I recall, the Pier Park project was a special situation where they (Dreamland) had originally had agree to do the project at a super discounted (almost donated) rate just to get the ball rolling for SPS. It wasn’t until the city and other money got involved that things got all mucked up with red tape and costs got out of hand. Pier Park is the project that SPS used to jumpstart the whole 19 parks system. Without it and SPS there’s a very high likely hood that you (or anyone else) wouldn’t have had the opportunity to bid on Gabriel Park in the first place.

  43. I gotta say, that double funnel looks pretty damn cool. I think there will be a revolt in the streets if it get’s built at Gabriel, but I would like to see something like that in the area. Unfortunately, the renderings don’t show it quite clearly.

  44. Snake run and a nice round bowl a la 70’s……that would be fun.

  45. KILWAG SAID:

    “Without it (Pier Park) and SPS there’s a very high likely hood that you (or anyone else) wouldn’t have had the opportunity to bid on Gabriel Park in the first place.”

    As I said, SPS has done tons of good work. But Tom didn’t originate the contemporary skatepark scene in Oregon. He got involved after many of us builders had been slaving away for years to make Oregon what it is now. Back in the days when Ashland, Talent and Jacksonville were known as the “Golden Triangle,” we worked for the love of skating, and we were united. After LC one, it was time to pour the Butter Bowl. The Southern Oregon crew joined the Burnsiders and the Westside guys. 36 yards got hand stacked by 30 dudes in one pour. All the Oregon builders worked on Newport, most for free. Then Stefan and I got the Newberg job, and the rest is history. We laid the foundation that SPS is built on.

  46. KILWAG SAID:

    “The full pipe at Pier is totally functional. It can be ridden like a, well.. full pipe or half pipe. I’m not sure why it has to be loopable to be usable.”

    I am merely applying the same criteria that Tom applied to the double funnel. Again, Tom said that

    “A double funnel for the three guys on the planet who are going to make it belongs in somebody’s backyard, not in a public skatepark.”

    Suppose someone builds a full-pipe that is just barely loopable, like a slightly easier version of Baldy. If we apply Tom’s “three guys” rule to that structure, it doesn’t belong in a public skatepark. Well guess what–Dreamland’s park at Hailey has a barely-loopable full-pipe, but I don’t hear Tom complaining that Hailey is a waste of money. He hasn’t said anything unkind about Dreamland’s copy of the Funnel Tunnel in Bolgna either. Now I propose to build a totally loopable full-pipe right here in Portland, and Tom wants to “nip it in the bud.” Clearly, the only reason he is against the Double Funnel is because Airspeed is for it.

  47. nweyesk8 on May 18, 2007 - Reply

    hey guys i understand that politics and opinions are apart of life, personally without reedsport, I would never have made a fullpipe loop. That is, too me at least, a pentacle in my skating carreer. But if we cant get along with each other, realizing not everyone does frontside kickturns, what’s the whole point of us skating. where is the fun in doing a grind, wherever it may be, if someone is vibing the park builders, instead of being stoked on a session with their friend at a ‘unique’ park? lets put it all aside and embrace the fact that at least 1 of 19 proposed parks is being built by airspeed, adding an element of diversity to the Portland skatepark system. fuck, growing up in MS, i would have killed for a park of the calibre of “marion square” in salem, to have a park built from a builder who brings a different perspective to skateboarding, we should all be stoked at the potential lines we would never have done without said park.so fuckin knock it off you guys, i have skated with all of you and you are all good people,

  48. Tom Miller on May 18, 2007 - Reply

    Funny thing about firms holding themselves out as professional… sometimes they can’t take a little constructive criticism and react unprofessionally. That’s unfortunate.

    Playing the second fiddle locally to Dreamland in the global epicenter of world-class public skateparks apparently is hard on the ego. And now with Stefan working in the state who knows how it will match up?

    Of course, the only way to rectify that is through skatepark delivery. Gabriel Park in Portland could be that chance. We welcome it. We’re selfish; we want to skate the best parks in the world in our hometown. But to pull it off you’ll have to listen and earn the support of the community through the design process. Portland jobs are grueling; ask who everybody except the street skaters considers the best skatepark contractor in the world. And after Glenhaven even the street skaters are coming around. And Battle Ground on June 2.

  49. Geth, you should bring whatever you want to the public meetings. You might be surprised what people will get behind. The Pier pipe was something that was embraced by the audience at an early meeting. We never imagined that something like that would fit our space or budget constraints but it did!

    I’m on the board of Skaters for Portland Skateparks. Our organization did not invent Oregon skateparks but we did work hard to get the city government and parks to live up to their promises and to raise the money to get Pier built. Our efforts to get the park built and to bring the city council out to witness the crowd and excitement generated by opening day, may have been directly responsible for Commissioner Saltzman proposing the $1 million+ for the construction of the next two skateparks. We always figured if we could just get one in the ground that it would get the ball rolling and it has. I think that may be what Kilwag was alluding to.

    I personally could not be happier with the pipe/big bowl at Pier Park.

    I would love to loop Reedsport someday. I’m not sure what people are looking for at Gabriel but I wouldn’t mind seeing something unique. It should be multi-functional though — the rollover at Hailey, for example, can be approached in a lot of different ways, you don’t have to skate the inside of the pipe to have fun with it.

    I would suggest that Airspeed develop a strong concept for the park and stick with it. It would be great to incorporate ideas from the public but don’t let them compromise your vision.

    Build us another cool skatepark.

  50. Getting tailstalls on the Amazon “extension” was a hexacle in my skating career.

    Hey, really though, 19 parks? No fair! Can we have one or two for Eugene? Don’t have to be greedy.

  51. whaley on May 18, 2007 - Reply

    i think airspeed makes parks for themselves to ride and i don’t like it. sure, i can go around the “paraboloid” and its a rush. some people like to do tricks. skateboard parks should be made with variety for all types of skaters. not for a handfull of guys in oregon who are riding 5 year old set ups and don’t support the industry, progression or for way the kids want to skate these days. straight up.
    that being said, and sorry for the criticism, i’ll skate anything once. a good park is crowded and people come back. i’ve never wanted to return to an airspeed park. this is where those 6 crusty dudes say “Good! We don’t want you!”
    i think there’s something wrong with that mentality. so next time you throw a sngle ledge or rail in on the side of the park, spend a minute to make it good.

  52. So what do you guys think about Lakisha getting voted off?

  53. shoey on May 18, 2007 - Reply

    waley are you even from here ? Is it the online thing that makes you feel bold enough to talk shit about someone whos poured their blood sweat and tears into giving us a better place to ride. maybe you didnt skate in oregon pre burnside . maybe you dont remember being stoked about finding a bank to ride and pretending it was a wave. The only things we used to have to skate here is what we built. the same kids of then ,build our parks for us now . they build these parks so the kids are able to progress for a life time. so the kids have something great to skate. something we only dreamed of as kids. im sorry if the old guys cut thier own boards out of a chunk of wood that doesnt have the name of some other dude . thank you DREAMLAND,AIRSPEED,PTR,grindline and anyone else that gives us more concrete to skate.

  54. I tend to agree with Conahan here. The ball is in Airspeed’s court to present a conceptual design that stands and delivers on all fronts. I prefer to see something that is unique, multi-functional and well worth a morning or afternoon of skating. Lights are still out of the questions right?

    Nonetheless, concrete turds should be a thing of the past.

  55. Notice that Tom has completely failed to address any of my arguments. That means I won the debate. Unless he wants to step up?

  56. nweyesk8 on May 19, 2007 - Reply

    fuck who won, lets skate

  57. That rendering of the double funnel looks pretty cool. What are the diameters of the openings? What are the dimensions of the Reedsport funnel?

  58. Reedsport Funnel Stats:

    Large end diameter 17′
    Tight end diameter 10′

    Double Funnel openings also 17′, but one is shorter, thus more obtuse.

  59. Wow. Some strong opinions and a heated discussion here. 🙂 I agree with nweyesk8 – Let’s all mellow out and go Skate!

    I think this thread is showing how we’ve all become emotionally attached to these parks – how we invest so much of our SELVES into the evolution of these concrete creations. The community that surrounds these parks has evolved some very strong feelings of ownership and commitment. I imagine that the creators of these parks probably feel the same way. 🙂 I feel lucky to be a part of this community and am looking forward to the future.

    We all know (well most of us) that Airspeed, Dreamland and Grindline can make great parks. We should be happy that they each have their own styles. Viva le difference! What fun would it be if they all made parks the same way?

    Conahen: I believe that the Funnel Tunnel in Reedsport is 18 feet tall on one side and 12 feet on the other.

  60. ‘doh. I was close on the funnel stats. hehe. Geth must have been postin at the same time.

    I think I would prolly fall under the ‘more obtuse’ category, too. 🙂

  61. marek on May 20, 2007 - Reply

    so there is that kid who can gring cradle. thats rad. i mean it. now i heard about this kid who kickfliped el toro. why dont we built some twenty (???) stairs in portland. that would be great. i bet all of us would step up and start doing some cool stuff. finally…

  62. danimal on May 20, 2007 - Reply

    how about a mega jump for the next park so we can all play “Danny Way”.

    For as much as i love bowls and vert and anything transitioned/banked, Portland needs a big street park. some of us kooks like to skate street still.

  63. nweyesk8 on May 21, 2007 - Reply

    danimal Says:

    May 20th, 2007 at 1:50 pm

    how about a mega jump for the next park so we can all play “Danny Way”.

    For as much as i love bowls and vert and anything transitioned/banked, Portland needs a big street park. some of us kooks like to skate street still.

    yeah, with a miniature great wall of china in the middle

  64. Dick Cancer on May 21, 2007 - Reply

    I would like to see Double Funnel in Gariel. I also think Stephanie is HOT… And why not let Airspeed go off on there next project. What’s in the past is in the past. I can honestly say I would rather have Airspeed build anything in Oregon than those coke suckers from california (wallyhollyday, Pukiss robe, and wormhouse), F those sidewalk builders, landscaper, FAGS, that don’t skate.
    Marek, I’m going get you if you don’t quit hating on big, fat, white, hard working AMERICANS. We make this country go around and we let out sons and daughters go out and get killed for big business and the safety of you, your wife, and the rest of us………thank you I am a dick. enjoy yourself, and have a nice day.

  65. Dick Cancer on May 21, 2007 - Reply

    Fast parks are few and far between…IN my little opinion, the fastest parks ARE KLAMATH FALLS, AND HAILEY. I think Hailey has to the fastest, That’s if you can get up on top of the full pipe and then head down and into the super deep.
    Shoey, you might just need to get out of Pornland for a little road trip. I know a lot of you think Kentucky falls is RAD but I don’t see many of you going down there, and Hailey is a even further away but I make the Journey every year. Ok, I’ve only made the journey twice but I will make it three this year and I will continue to make it year after year until I can loop it. So, other than that go ride Klamath and get your fill of fast. Or go on a road trip, Hailey is waiting. I know a lot of you fatties are scared of Kfalls. What the pad nanny scare you, or a buck going to break the bank??? There’s just a few hillbillies, and they have eradicated most of the natives and have put them up north in Chiloquin with there casino.

  66. shoey on May 21, 2007 - Reply

    Shoey aint in portland . Its just near where he grew up dick . Its nice to see you like the same parks as me . I feel parks should be much larger than the two you have mentioned . I think its funny a country like china has bigger shit than we have. Hailey and klammath are great parks but I feel they have only scratched the suface of the possibilities of a great flow park. Im just an ordinary dad and I can skate all that shit fine . Im still looking to skate something bigger. By the way dick ,haileys a rad loop . But ,,,,,,,HAVE YOU LOOPED ANYTHING????????? By the way dick , My collars blue my neck is red and I was born and raised in oregon. If you really want something big quit waiting for the govt. and build it yourself . I will help you.

  67. Tom Miller on May 23, 2007 - Reply

    I used to believe Airspeed would someday deliver the iPod of skateparks, gorgeous and überfunctional, changing skateparks and skateboarding forever like Burnside did.

    Today I’ve lost my faith. From Airspeed we witness product that demonstrates stubborn intent on creativity (good), consistently at the expense of overall park functionality (bad). This trend is on display in Waldport, Reedsport, and Florence. Where the client demurrers from the super feature, the product is creative and dysfunctional (Toledo).

    One wonders why this unfortunate trend has developed, and how it can be improved. I mean, if you’ve been building skateparks since the Dawn of Man and represent the pillar upon which skatepark advocacy stands, you should know how to get the whole thing right. Right?

    Geth’s comments tell us much. There is an unequivocal sense of personal mission to break new ground for himself and, by extension, his nine colleagues in the loop fraternity. Geth is our astronaut that will build us the rocketship that propels him to Mars.

    I know his aim is not exclusivity and instead to extend these possibilities to all who arrive at the skatepark. That’s admirable, and necessary. The Airspeed super feature is an essential contribution to skateboarding.

    So the question is not whether but how to include the super feature. The reality is we’re not all going upside down. The reaction I frequently hear from people when they learn of Gabriel going to Airspeed is, “Oh great! Another hole for a few people to go over. Looks like I’ll be at Glenhaven.” The rest of the park has to be just as compelling.

    Geth confirms my suspicion that the rest of the park is a laborious afterthought, an annoying distraction from the continued obsession with the loop. After all, how else can one judge his improbable reaction to the pipes at Pier and Hailey? By any reasonable argument, these are timeless contributions to skateboarding. If frontside kickturns are all you bring the full pipe, so be it. But don’t impose your limitations on others; see Mason Huggins for a more expansive take on what can be done in a pipe.

    I’m glad Geth raised Hailey and Pier. I have championed and will continue to champion the super feature, Hailey and Pier’s respective super features — their one of-a-kind pipes – offer a range of options to users of all abilities. If Geth wants to loop Hailey or Pier, great. For most, one of their favorite Hailey memories is that first time making it up and over the pipe. Skaters of every ability levels from basic to Geth’s can enjoy that. And when you want to turn it up — like Mark Scott’s frontside 50-50 attempt down the rail at Hailey (which I would not have believed if I hadn’t seen the video clip) — you turn it up.

    Pier’s hole. It had never been built before. Simultaneously, it provides the primary means in for newbies, out for everybody, an air/ollie gap, and — for one person to date — something to carve/slide over. That’s a healthy return on investment. Gnarl? 10 people have looped Reedsport, but just one has made it over Pier’s hole. Some guy named Peter Hewitt. In summary, Hailey and Pier’s super feature pipes get used in a variety of ways by skaters of all abilities basically every single run.

    The same cannot be said of the funnel. Unlike a pipe which clearly people enjoy skating no matter how high they get, the funnel offers just one line: the one at 11:59. If you can’t or won’t go 11:59 the inside of the funnel doesn’t offer you anything. Skating it like a full pipe isn’t that fun because the tranny is always changing below your feet.

    Compare that to a cradle. You can go 11:59 in a cradle. You can also go every tick of the clock downwards. The difference in functionality (or said another way, ROI) is startling. I’m not anti-funnel; I’m just acknowledging the facts. The funnel is a one-trick pony. To Airspeed’s credit, they tried to make it as functional as possible; there is the fly-out on the hip, the plunge off the top, and the hot wheels track.

    All three are great concepts. The fly-out line is classic. The plunge was an afterthought as there is no up and over line for the funnel plunge. From low to high you get sent into the grass. From high to low there is no speed line to get on top. You have to walk up. Who wants to walk in a skatepark?

    I love the hot wheels track. How many guys have made it? One, right? Some guy named Matt Mumford. Almost anybody could make it if the approach — and enjoy the rush that follows — if a set-up line existed.

    The pipes at Hailey and Pier, as well as the cradle, demonstrate to my way of thinking a clever synchronization of fashion (gnarl) and function (accessibility). And the rest of those parks are not afterthoughts. To Geth’s complaint about Pier’s mid-bowl, we wanted a lot more seamlessness between the bowl and the pipe, including over the door. Mark Scott was concerned that too much activity on top of the pipe might present a liability problem. He apparently wasn’t consulting “his lawyer.” We compromised; it’s not ideal but it works and people have sick lines involving that chute. Kind of ironic that a lawyer who works for the City wasn’t able to convince Mark Scott to up the ante on design, huh?

    That is a lot of words to simply say Gabriel should be good. For everybody. Hopefully Gabriel will be the first park where Airspeed makes that happen.

  68. Tom Miller on May 23, 2007 - Reply

    I should that I used to assume people understood my intention in raising my concerns is simply to provoke thoughtful discussion. Reasonable minds can have different views on things. I admire Geth’s and Airspeed’s commitment to skateparks and skateboarding. However, they need to be available to hear the range of views. I no longer assume people get that. Instead I provide disclaimers like this one.

  69. shoey on May 23, 2007 - Reply

    Since portland has several smaller features to skate and plenty of street stuff. Maybe we could all work like a “skate family ” instead of ” the local skate govt.” and provide portland with on of the largest concrete features yet. I think kilwag noted somewhere the next park will be street . It would be really swell if airspeed built something to go real fast in. Maybe a giant downhill to that 12 and four I keep hearin about. Tom, I remember skating with you at florence opening day . As I remeber , You had a smile on your face all day from going around the hot wheels track. Its cool man so did I.

  70. Who says I am not open to input? Now that I know Tom wants a skateable Ipod, we will get right on it. Nobody asked for it before, that’s all! The Martian rocketship full-pipe is also a good idea, thanks Tom!

    Two dudes have made the hot wheels track at Reedsport, as far as I know. If everything was easy, nothing would be hard! We made the easier hot wheels track at Florence so that Tom would quit complaining that the one at Reedsort was too hard. LOL

    The funnel can be skated like a full pipe, there is no reason why not. Also, in 2005 we made an addition to Reedsport that completes the line up and over the funnel. Now the funnel is 100% skateable, inside and out, around the clock. Come back Tom we miss you!

    If “tranny always changing below your feet” makes things not fun, as Tom says, then apparently pools are not fun. I encourage Tom to skate a real pool and see how fun different trannies can be! I think Lincoln City has one…

  71. Tom Miller said “I love the hot wheels track. How many guys have made it? One, right? Some guy named Matt Mumford. Almost anybody could make it if the approach — and enjoy the rush that follows” — if a set-up line existed.”

    Peter Gunn did it long ago and made it look easy.

  72. Joe Brown on May 24, 2007 - Reply

    Reedsport is still one of my favorite parks. I welcome Airspeed to Portland. Variety is the spice of life.

  73. shoey on May 25, 2007 - Reply

    Geth has a concept for gabriel park. Check it out at airspeeds web site . I think its pretty fun looking.

  74. I am very grateful to Tom for providing the Devil’s Advocate viewpoint. There would be no debate without opposing sides. Oregon is fortunate to have several excellent design-build firms competing to build our skateparks. Each firm has different strengths. We should celebrate our diversity. Oregon rules!

  75. Cancer Chris on May 25, 2007 - Reply

    The GP concept looks kind of boring actually. The funnel doesn’t seem very functional like it does in the other Indiana concept. The GP funnel looks like an afterthought.

    Also, what’s all this we keep hearing about elevation in the park? I can’t understand how it applies in the renderin it just looks flat. What’s the differnce in elevation we are talking about, and over how much distance? The GP design seems to compensate for the elevation instead of incorporate it.

  76. nweyesk8 on May 26, 2007 - Reply

    After looking at the GP concept, i have to say, sorry Geth, but it does seem rather uninspired. As far as the double funnel idea, do we really need it? I ask this as a person who has not only looped reedsport, but I used existing skateparks to “practice” before trying the reedsport funnel. I went to LCII And rode till I got comfortable getting my head lower than my board. Next I spent A session riding Waldport and pushing to get as close to carving the lip of the ‘funnel’ as possible. With these “training” sessions done I felt pretty comfortable going for it at Reedsport the first time, even though I never rode it out that day. While I havent seen the topography of the proposed Gabriel site, surely if it has incline, there has to be a better design than the one being currently propposed. Geth, I have ridden some really fun Design elements from you and I think there is something better in you, something to really shine.
    joesf heffner

  77. nweyesk8 on May 26, 2007 - Reply

    honestly, it would be nice to see the “showpiece park” be built by the same “DREAM TEAM” that brought us such classic parks as “aumsville”,”Licoln City I”,”Newberg”.

  78. I have to say I’m stoked that airspeed is going to be putting their $.02 into the Portland skatepark plan, but I’m not a huge fan of the double funnel idea. It just doesn’t seem like it is needed when we already have a fullpipe in town. Ya, its not loopable, but I’m leaning towards something along the lines of a real snake run. Not a bunch of connected bowls, a la Lincoln City.

  79. shoey on May 26, 2007 - Reply

    A downhill field of volcanoes with a 12 and 4 at the bottom.

  80. Dick Cancer on May 27, 2007 - Reply

    Don’t BUILD IT. Stay home, gay out and watch some video with skating in it. Forget the funnel tunnel, build a TURD. Toledo has a turdesque feeling. Reedsport has the super feature but on the other side of that super feature is a full on steamy mushy turd…not mention Eugene’s three or four parks suck fecal matter.
    Why doesn’t Airspeed close up shop for good, go back and relearn how to build parks with Dreamland. Kiss Mark’s ass and get your job back. Kill THRREE birds with one stone, learn how to design parks better, skaTE FASTER, AND TROWEL FASTER. OR MAYBE YOU AND DAWKINS…..

  81. cowboy on May 28, 2007 - Reply

    Yeah dreamland all the way . Lets get another sick snake run like redmond. That place rules. By far one of the best snake runs built by the best park builders. A quality snake run like that would do portland much better than some crazy feature . No one really wants to have something totally different than dreamland anyway. like dick said well just drive to go skate double funnels. All the way to indiana. That will show our support for the war. Its true at a minimum ,only dreamland should be allowed to design skateparks . Why would anyone else even try ?

  82. OK, time to get your ya ya’s out. This thread is no longer producing useful discussion. Tomorrow it dies.

  83. danimal on May 28, 2007 - Reply

    make the double taco!

  84. Dick Cancer on May 29, 2007 - Reply

    Yeah, TACO’s rule. pink taco’s chicken taco’s, beef taco’s. i know I like to kid around alot, but really SERIOUS, a NEW, REDESIGNED, RETRO, SUPER LONG, SUPER FAST, SNAKE RUN WOULD MAKE THE PORTLAND AREA REALLY COMPLETE.
    and if you sit down and think about Airspeed might be able to design and build it. Reality makes me think a Airspeed Plaza is coming, no double TUNNEL.

  85. Thank you, and good night.

  86. office on March 16, 2008 - Reply

    wow, you guys could have learned nine new tricks in the time it took to read and discuss all this skatepark stuff.

  87. Chris Brown has a very girly face.

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