Interview: Michael Brooke of Concrete Wave Magazine, continued:
In the eighties we didn’t really have the renaissance of 60’s and 70’s skaters getting back into or continuing to skate, at least not in the numbers that we have now. As a result we have the skate media backlash against the “Barneys.” Recently in Concussion there was even an editorial cartoon that featured a kooky looking skater with Concrete Wave sticker on his board. Thrasher magazine now makes fun of luge skating which is ironic since under KT’s watch they were the earliest proponents of the sport. How do you respond to criticism that Concrete Wave is for out of touch guys that just want to relive the old days?
Firstly, I dig Concussion. I have huge respect for anyone who puts out an independent magazine. It ain’t easy. That being said, they seem to get their nose out of joint by what Concrete Wave is doing and have taken a few jabs. That’s cool. We’ll give them a shot here and there too….after all, we don’t run reviews on ladies underwear. (see their issue #25)
As for the Barney’s…this is a load of horseshit, and they know it. If you think you “own” skateboarding and that only “your group” is legitimate, you don’t truly understand skateboarding. I believe in a total picture – skateboarding is filled with a great many types of skaters. What would you rather have? More golfers or more guys returning to skateboarding? Live and let live is my motto.
This really isn’t about Barney’s. It’s about control of the direction of skateboarding. It’s about the image of skateboarding. Well, the image of skateboarding is wide ranging and sadly, a lot of it revolves around crass commercialism to hype “the lifestyle”
Let me say on the record that the emperor has NO CLOTHES. Actually, in the case of skateboarding…the emperor has too many clothes..and shoes. The reality is that some in the skateworld want it kept underground (ie: our scene and screw you!) and some in the skateworld are happy to whore it out to the largest multinationals they can find. This is what skateboarding is today. Between these two extremes, you have all kinds of things happening.
Concrete Wave stands for all types of skaters and skateboarding. If certain people can’t deal with that, tough shit. Skateboarding is not about lifestyle for me…it’s my life. I am putting the focus on skateboarding…not the fashion of skateboarding. That’s why we say 100% skateboarding.
Older guys are getting back into it. Good for them. Sure, it would be nice if they never left, but so what. They are into it, and it means that it’s good for skateboarding – they are buying gear and getting out there and skating. Are they out of touch? Not really. They have deep love for skateboarding and something has propelled them back in. If other skaters can’t handle that, that’s their problem. Let’s see if these same folks (who put down older returning skaters) will be skating in twenty years. Time will tell.
Thrasher promoted a lot of things – slalom, downhill, freestyle. So did Transworld. A decision was made 15 years ago to eradicate variety (with the exception of a few vert shots) and stick with mostly rails and ledges. That’s the mag’s decision. My reaction to this was to create Concrete Wave. I sincerely hope that the other mags start covering more than just rails and ledges and the occasional vert shot. It’s their decision to do what they feel is best for the readers and advertisers. My guess is that they will start covering more. Good for them.
Does the “Barney” exist as a species or is any skater OK in your book?
Every skater is welcomed…with the exception of one. The sad truth is that I have run across skaters who absolutely buy into the “it’s cool to sit around the skatepark, rip on other skaters, demand free stuff and never skate.” This is a species that truly buys into the “lifestyle” trip. They’ll be involved with skateboarding for a few years and move onto something else, hopefully.
The lack of shoe and apparel company ads in Concrete Wave is refreshing. Can you tell us why you made that editorial decision? Is there any shoe or clothing company that you would consider allowing?
We would allow shoe and clothing companies to advertise, if they were advertising/sponsoring an event. And, I have allowed one very small clothing company in the mag since they were printing our CW t-shirts. But, for the most part, we ONLY want hardgoods guys. This goes back to our mantra of 100% skateboarding. Fifteen years ago it was 85% hardgoods and 15% softgoods in the mags. Now it’s the opposite or even more softgoods! Concrete Wave wanted to be vastly different and remarkable than the other mags. I fully realize that the skateshops need the softgood revenue (9 out of every 10 dollars in skateboarding is spent on softgoods) but I don’t think the mag falls short because it doesn’t have a slew of shoe ads.
If you are anxious for shoe or clothing ads, there are numerous publications that can fulfill your desire. Again, I remind all readers, you need a skateboard to skate…if you remove the skateboard from the shoe and clothing companies, you just have shoe and clothing companies.
The recent expansion into Wal Mart locations has rubbed some people the wrong way. How does being distributed by Wal Mart jive with your stance on remaining core by not accepting unaffiliated advertisements?
It’s about distribution and exposure, pure and simple. It’s doubtful any of my advertisers will get into WalMart. 100 million people visit WalMart each week. Even if 100 pick up the mag and read it, it’s huge exposure. In my latest editorial I directed people who might not be familiar with the products inside the mag to visit their LOCAL skateshop…or go on line.
So, in essence, we are leveraging the massive distribution/exposure that WalMart has to reach people who may not know about the mag. Not one of my advertisers said it was a bonehead move. They loved the idea of more exposure. Oddly enough, it makes the mag more attractive to zit cream and army recruiters and cell phone companies and car companies…but there is NO WAY I am letting those guys in (unless of course they sponsor a skate event).
And a final point here…I don’t think CW is core…it’s niche. There is a big difference.
Are you worried about overextending yourself and becoming beholden to your advertisers and distributors like Wal Mart, who is notoriously heavy handed when dealing with suppliers. What if they start to ask for editorial changes such as the elimination of offensive words?
We took the word f**k out in issue #3. I still use the word shit. Why did I remove f**k? Simple, 50% of skaters are UNDER the age of 11. I found that parents were much happier giving their kids CW with the word f**k removed. Since I want to ensure that we promote skateboarding to all types of people, I made an executive decision and made it parent friendly. If people want gnarly graphics and expletives, I am totally cool with that…but it’s not going to be in CW because it doesn’t fit our goals. If we want change within skateboarding, it will have to come with the youth…the next generation. And I can’t jeopardize things. I have 3 kids. My 8 year old son reads CW and I am cool with that.
(We still use the word “fuck” on this web site, but we try not to overuse it, simply to keep the various content blockers from blocking our site for readers at companies and schools. Don’t laugh. Some of our readers got book learned! – K.Ed)
That being said, I can’t wait for some parent to call up and demand that they remove CW from Wal Mart due to word shit in there… or the Shitbird ad… or something stupid like that. The publicity would be amazing. But, I doubt that will happen. Even Transworld has the word shit. The reality is that Wal Mart has the magazine on consignment (like all mags out there!). If it sells, you stay, if it doesn’t sell, you’re out the door, pronto.
Wal Mart won’t bother me…I am too small and I am strictly limiting how many copies I give them for the shelves. But if they decide to be heavy handed and dictate editorial, I would pull the mag. IN A SECOND. Having WalMart does not make or break me…it just increases the exposure and moves us closer to our goals.
How has being based in Canada affected the magazine editorially? Do you think it is a positive thing to be removed from the center of the skateboarding manufacturing (and marketing) industry?
It’s both good and bad. I don’t deal with the politics since I am not in the firestorm down there. But, I am removed from the firestorm and I can miss things. For the most part, I am in the loop more often than not. Sure, there are folks that take shots and say “what does that Canuck know…” but the reality is that I am on the phone 4 to 5 hours a day with California.
I think being in Canada gives me a global perspective. We’re cool with showcasing stories from around the world. Most of the manufacturers and marketers I deal with seem cool with the idea of where I live. I think they are pleased to see that we are trying to help. They would like for me to be down there more often, but it’s not a huge problem.
The industry has always been sort of a closed club, prone to back stabbing, favoritism, shady deals, and attacks through print ads. Has Concrete Wave been the recipient of any such nonsense?
Sure, but I never lose site of the goals of the mag. Have we managed to piss folks off? Yep. Will we continue to upset people? Probably. But we don’t intentional harm anyone and we sure as hell won’t start a war or backstab someone. I learned from many in the skate industry (while researching Concrete Wave, the book) and I know that I must never back down when someone tosses a verbal grenade. So, I try to keep a sense of humor about the industry and work through the issues.
Concrete Wave Editions put out the Warren Bolster book as well as Disposable. Can you talk about upcoming print projects.
This is one little project that is spiraling…we are about to launch Bill Hensely’s BEST OF THE WEST Skatepark guide – a spiral bound book that will feature the best parks of Washington, Oregon, California and Arizona. I am just starting to work on a book with Tri Star Pictures that is a behind the scenes look at the Lords of Dogtown. It hits in May. The photos in this book will be extraordinary.
A book on skate photography is coming out for the fall. There are several other books in the works. I am proud of what we’ve accomplished so far and we will continue to make remarkable books for skaters.
The Best of the West park guide, is it taking over for the original publication (Skate Park Guide) since it appears to be the same crew, or is this just a joint venture? Details, please. Are there other volumes planned, contingent on how well this one sells?
That’s a crazy story… The original publisher had some marginal success with the first two guides… Author Bill Hensley and his team did a good job, but they were working with a publisher who didn’t know much about skateboarding (always a deadly combination, let me tell you!) Anyway, Bill went out and worked his butt off to get the third edition and handed it in before the deadline. A few days later, he got a call from the publisher telling him that the whole project was cancelled. What a raw deal. Bill had spent months working on this and it just collapsed. I got a call from Brad Robarge over at Team Goon/Punk Rock skateboards. He had spoken to Bill about my publishing division. Needless to say, we leapt at the chance to help Bill.
I came up with the idea of a 32 page teaser…we printed 10,000 of these puppies and they have been very well received. The 132 page spiral bound book hits late April….$9.95 – which is $2 less than the previous guide. If it goes well, and I am pretty sure folks will dig it, then it’s off to the midwest, east and Europe…Australia…South America….and Mars, eventually
Have there been any pleasant surprises in your publishing endeavors?
I think the nicest thing is to receive an email or a comment from a reader who says “your mag got me back into skateboarding…or it brought me into skateboarding.”. It’s nice to meet up with pros and have them remember your name. That can be truly surprising!
next page… Chinese Wood
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